Monday, November 22, 2010

A funny thing happened to me on the way to the forum...

A couple of childhood friends have accused me of shutting down the dialogue when people don’t agree with me. Apparently I got them all hot and bothered, then I flat-left them. I picked up my toys and went home. I grabbed my boa and flounced off.

“Why do you get so upset when people disagree with you?” they asked.

“I prefer an open forum,” they said, “where people listen to other opinions tolerantly.”


Yeah, me too, except that Facebook isn’t really an open forum. I’ve had people ignore my friend requests, or un-friend me, or fail to answer my messages, and I’m pretty damn sure that people who find me really annoying have hidden me from their feeds – just as I have hidden them. That’s the beauty of Facebook; you make what you want of it. You get what you get and you don’t get upset.

Now because my offended friends actually comment on my posts extremely rarely, I didn’t have them in mind when I posted that petition in favor of extending unemployment benefits, or that possibly-debunked-by-Snopes jpeg about how a 1950s housewife should stfu in the presence of her man. For the most part, only the usual suspects responded, and they responded in the usual way, and it was all good until the outside agitators showed up.

Frankly, I use Facebook to talk to like-minded people, most of whom I’ve met during the last twenty years. I had lost touch with the-two-who-are-now-mad-at-me a long time ago, although it was one of them who invited me to join Facebook, and in retrospect I’m glad she did. But maybe we knew back when we stopped talking that we weren’t the right friends for one another. We were young then, and now we’re not. People change and move on, and Facebook can't really fix that.

As for my mind being closed: yep, it is. I mean, it would be really difficult at this point for anyone to convince me that the rich will create jobs for the rest of us provided we don’t make them pay their taxes. It would be difficult to convince me that a woman should be submissive to her husband because that’s the only way a heterosexual couple can keep their marriage going. It would be difficult to convince me that most unemployed people are lazy and are somehow gaming the system; therefore everyone's benefits should be cut. (And just for good measure, it would be really, REALLY difficult to convince me that it’s okay for a parent to be forced to hold a fundraiser to get chemotherapy for their child -- something that is UNHEARD OF in “socialist” western Europe.)

These are some of the viewpoints I have been asked to listen to with an open mind. I can’t do it. I can’t do it because – well, because they’re ridiculous viewpoints – but also because I didn’t just wake up one morning in 2008 and decide, “hey! I guess I’m a liberal feminist now!” Rather, these are beliefs I’ve held since I began to study how the world works, probably at around age fourteen. I have read and studied and debated with some fairly bright people and I’ve found that I still agree with myself. That’s thirty years of liberal feminism, which has survived intact despite the best efforts of Reagan and Bush I and Bush II (or Chimpy McFuckface as my friend Steve calls him) and all their ilk.

So calling me out for closed-mindedness on Facebook probably won’t make a dent now. Sorry.

At a certain point, sitting back and listening to the other side means that nothing is getting done. Of late, it seems to me that only one side “listens” while the other side steamrolls right over them. I can’t necessarily tell the Democrats in Congress what to do (though God knows I’ve tried) but if I want to do a little steamrolling on my own Facebook page, I will. I’ll be all, “you know what? There is no point in going on about this so I’m gonna stop.” And you can unfriend me if that doesn’t suit you.

8 comments:

Wormwood's Doxy said...

A-fucking-men.

I get so upset with people who disagree with me because I do my HOMEWORK. I use facts and logic--as well as science and history--to make my points.

The people who are arguing with me wouldn't know a fact if it bit them in the ass. And they are PROUD of that!

I am beginning to despair that this country--and even the world--can be saved when it seems to be filled with people who base their opinions on cotton candy and cannot be swayed by logic, data, or even good old human compassion....

PJ DeGenaro said...

Yep. All of that...

...and it's FACEBOOK, FFS. If I say I'm not gonna talk to you anymore, it's not exactly akin to tying a gag around your mouth. You can keep going as long as you want! ;)

Steve said...

P.J.: I couldn't agree more with what you've said. The (fairly modest) joy of Facebook is that it allows its users a personal space, where by definition the rules will be kind of different than those in operation on multi-user forums without an "owner". Like you, I really don't have the time or the inclination to get into any do-si-dos with people who Facebook-friend me a) on a whim or b) with knowledge beforehand of my personality, attitude & general outlook, and who then feel this act of extraordinary generosity on their part somehow gives them the right to act as my personal opinion-vetter and post-censor. As you (almost) said yesterday, if you don't like the bacon, don't spoil it for someone who does.

(On a personal note, I'm flattered and honoured to have earned a personal namecheck in the blog, albeit one that's attached to a point of view which may well earn me a full cavity search the next time I pass through US Customs.)

~ Steve

PJ DeGenaro said...

Steve, I'm chuffed to see you here!

That whole situation got ugly. I looked back at the 1950s thread and thought, gosh, I really did jump on the poor woman. But to be honest, she's been making me cringe for a long time. I didn't want to just say, look, I'm not continuing this because you can't possibly come out on top -- and "on top" is apparently not where you want to be anyway, so shut-face already.

Oh and don't worry. I've been railing about Chimpy McFuckface online for ages and haven't been felt up by the TSA yet!

eileen said...

Yeah...pretty much what you said.

I have friends across all lines, and even my own husband blocks half of what I post because it irks him, so, it's a huge whatever.

Wormwood's Doxy said...

Steve--on one level I get that. But on another, if I put a political opinion out there, I know there are people who will disagree with me and I am ready to defend what I think.

I argue with people on Facebook on occasion because I think if you can't justify the opinion you hold, SOMEBODY ought to point out to you that you don't know what the hell you are talking about.

But, as PJ notes, it usually ends up in "Well, that's my opinion and I'm sticking to it." I really should save myself the aggravation, I guess... (But I will continue to believe that people ought to be able to back up their assertions with something other than "That's just what I think" or "Glenn Beck said it, I believe it, and that settles it." :-(

PJ DeGenaro said...

It's just really hard to talk about gender essentialism with a gal who plain ol' wants to be married and taken care of. And it's hard to convince someone who's grossed out by poor people that they need to pony up their taxes for social programs.

I mean, I don't always have my facts and statistics lined up either, but shit, these people are just afraid of life. They're thinking, "if I follow these five or ten simple rules I'll be safe and everything will be fine. If I never raise my voice to a man, he will love me. If I work hard now, there is no chance in hell that I'll ever be poor and hungry."

You and I (and Steve and Eileen) know that things are much messier than that. I think that's what it is.

David said...

Righteous rant there, Ms. DeGenaro. A-fuckin'-men!

::offers terrorist fist-bump::